african integration wrong

Integration is Wrong

african integration wrong
Please check out the artist’s website who made this cool pic.

I’m having a very interesting conversation at a Facebook group called African Holocaust.

African Holocaust is dedicated to the progressive study of Global African history and culture. Restoring Africans as agents of their world and fostering economic, intellectual, development and a new African paradigm.

Also see the African Holocaust website for more.

I find the group very interesting and it helps to give me perspective on a more Pan-African worldview. I find a lot of what they say extreme but don’t always engage. But recently the owner of the Facebook page said this:

Integration is not what we are preaching, but we do preach co-existence and tolerance. Integration desensitizes you to the reality which too often pops back up. Integration is what the Jews thought they had in Germany until hatred caught them off-guard. Integration is a slave in waiting. You do not have to become your neighbour to be a good neighbour.

I found this interesting and commented, especially after another commenter (humble tari) posted

humble tafari
Africa for Africans, Europe for europeans, Asia for Asians

Here’s how the conversation went down after that.

African Holocaust
you remember the first thing the French told the Arab Muslims French citizens when they got mouthy? THIS IS FRANCE! Remember what Gordon Brown said “THIS IS ENGLAND” basically England is built on the values of English people. So yes you have a French or British passport. But you are only a tolerated guest.

Ryan Strydom (this is me)
‎@humble tafari. Lol, Africa for Africans… Europe for Europeans… Wow, that’s called APARTHEID.

@African Holocaust, there is such a thing as paranoia. Integration helps a country to become a nation, otherwise it is fragmented. Where do y…ou draw the line? Should the Zulu and Xhosa not integrate? They’re both African by your definition of African. Even this facebook page of yours is highly integrated, with each influencing the other in worldview.

African Holocaust
‎@Ryan that is not integration. Co-existence you are on this f.b page you co-exist with us, you are not integrated with us. When Humble says Africa for the Africans, I think you need to understand what that means. Each race has a Motherland… and our racial home is Africa, where our cultures and values are normal and the dominant cultural standard.

Yes you might think it is a fine line but we do not become you and you do not become us. You stay you and we stay us. I will not call my children Ryan and you will not call your children Molefi. We might go to the same school we might visit each others house. But I will respect you as a White person in Africa. And you will respect as an African in Africa. You will also recognize my claim to the land and the majority culture. Just like in France French is the dominant culture, French is the language, French is the food. Thats how i understand Africa for Africans. Not we get to Africa and everything is still White. Then we get to Europe and it is also white – So where is our home?

Stephen Abiola
celebration of diversity,multiculturalism, melting pot of colours….sounds good , its just that the people controlling the melting pot, the diversity and multicultural societies are not themselves part of it…..They just monitor and control it… for thought….

African Holocaust
a multicultural monoculture. as stated on our site “there is no diversity if all of our values are pointing North”

Yanano Dylan
isnt it multi culture comes to existence when you respect other people’s cultures,what do the jews have to say about their intolerance and siege to the palestinians

Ryan Strydom
‎@AH — I understand your point but perhaps a difference here between us is that I might just call my son Molefi and know white couples that have done just that. Why? Because, well, their son was born in Africa so why not give their son an …African name?

You could think of it from my perspective. I was born here, I was raised here. I don’t fit into Britain, I don’t fit into America, and I don’t fit into Australia. I know this because I have visited at least one of those countries and know others that have even had to stay in all three.

So, I begin to ask the same questions as you — where is my home? I’m not Western enough for Westerners or African enough for Africans. And I think I would have every right to feel a little upset when someone insists I must go to Europe just because I look like the Europeans, if I want to call any place home.

I don’t think I’m an anomaly here.

I envision a South Africa with one culture — a South African one. In truth, culture can’t be defined that easily anyway. Britain has culture and sub-culture, America has culture and sub-culture, and within sub-cultures there are smaller sub-cultures. So I don’t envision an Africa with one culture, which is impossible, but I should hope that each country develops its culture.

Since the same kind of blood pumps through both of our veins I see no reason why integration should ever be a problem. I co-exist with the fish in the sea; I integrate, engage, love and respect human beings.

From my perspective, there’s more than just co-existing going on in this FB forum, otherwise there could be no actual engagement. We would all just shout our opinions but never work together, never understand each other, never become brothers but always hold everything and everyone at arms length. But the question is what for? The past is important but it’s the future that we and our children have to live in.

I don’t believe God’s vision for this world was ever one of co-existence but one of unity between God and man and man and man, and unity does not come except through integration, surely?

Choice Felton
Intergration is not A good thing and AmeriKKKa has gotten soft and lame over the years

African Holocaust
Sure Ryan Most African-Americans dont fit into African life either. Doest change the fact that the home of Chinese is China, and we would not expect (as we do in SA) to see every single last piece of business in china owned by Whites. But I…n South Africa we see Whites owning everything, the culture is White. The language is a white language. Thats is not integration or co-existence that is domination.

Did you also marry a Zulu girl ? Because we find with all of this melting in South Africa Indians stick to their own. Whites stick to their own. In other words integration is a myth. People co-exist and I hope we are not just talking semantics.

I know many whites and it is definitely not normal for them to take on anything African. They hold dual nationality. and blend perfectly into Europe when they decide to flee. Sure Whites can call Africa home, just like we call UK home.But the home of our race as a people is AFRICA. It is where we should hear our languages, eat our food, run free on our land and make policies which reflect our African way of life. Define our own definitions of self (unlike what whites try to do in SA), Define our cultural destiny (unlike SA)

Culture exist on many levels (AS YOU SAID). But we are specifically talking about an African culture which is different from a nationalistic culture e.g. “We are all South Africans” (no such thing in any tangible sense apart from a flag and an anthem) because in South Africa for 100% Indians are Indians, Whites are Whites and there is no confusion, they do not even have the same accent (like in America or UK or Caribbean). So SA is a bad example for discussing a blanket non-racial culture. Unlike Swahili culture where everyone Indian, Arab, African speak Swahili.

African Holocaust
and Ryan, White couples calling their children Molefi, WOW, that is one in a billion. Black people calling their children Ryan, 1 in 10. Thats the problem with integration – Africans being disadvantaged always lose.

Ajmal Haneef
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

Choice Felton
Ryan 0 AfricaN HolocausT 20 ILL DRINK TO THAT

Choice Felton
Who or what is allah, Dont you know all 3 major Religions come out of the VATICAN or was created by Ryans ancestors. judaism, christianity an islam are all one and the same

African Holocaust
Religion and integration: Ryans ancestors saw a good thing and claimed it. Maybe we should do the same. We do not throw out any aspect of our history. The same way Rome claims both their so-called Pagan history and their Christian history. …We claim Kemet, We claim Islam, we claim Judaism so Allah is very relevant to us here (our history in both Islam and Christianity)
We do not throw any aspect of our history out on the say so of White agendas (paying Black agents). Not one single religion ever came out of Europe. But Integration caused the Vatican complex.

Choice Felton
What did they claim, as I was told the storys that make up the bible use to be Afrikan Myths and fairy tales. we didnt have religion in afrika Europeans gave that 1 and only thing to the world.

African Holocaust ‎
@ Choice we too often give too much credit to Europe. We invented mainstream religion in the Nile Valley. Hell and Heaven – Nile Vallley, Judgment – Nile Valley. Check out the work

Choice Felton
Under whos reign, How long ago was the nile valley conquered by Euroopeans Greece. who took the land from Asian Persians / Hindu Religion comes out of europe or Asia did not get its start in Afrika we were Spiritual not religious. Greece and romans Came into Afrika Saw all we had and could do and Called US GODS we had no concept of god.

Ryan Strydom

Christianity came out of the ancient near east and spread through the Roman empire and Africa (Ethiopia was a
central point for early Christianity) like wildfire.

…St Augustine, one of the major figures in the early church (around 300 – 400 AD) was an African man. He was born in North Africa and while we don’t know exactly what colour he was, there is a very big possibility that he was a black man. And yet he founded a huge amount of the Catholic church’s doctrine which it still holds to today. That ought to say something.

The Roman empire was a very integrated culture and the ‘religion’ (I use that word loosely) of Christianity was taken up by people of all races. Christianity is not a European thing at all. And its vision is to see every tribe, every tongue, every nation come under the Lordship of its King, Jesus Christ, and enjoy the grace and freedom that He brings.

To say that all three of the major religions come from the Vatican means to say you don’t really know the history of those religions at all. And don’t you have a religion in Africa? What about honouring the ancestors? Do you not see this as a religion?

@ AH – there are multiple issues I would bring up here. In essence I understand your point, but I don’t see how living in the past alone builds a way into the future. I don’t say the past is not important, but there is also a future. And we also can’t pick and choose the past we would prefer to make our point. As I said, we have a global history of integration that spans back very, very far into the past. Should this not be considered?

God gave Earth to man, he didn’t divide it up into pieces for all the different men that exist and tell which ones should live where. The whole place was given to man to nurture and take care of. Together. Do you think God’s vision for man is integration or co-existence? And why? (Assuming you believe in some form of God? And if you don’t, I would ask why not.)

I’ll post more here as the conversation continues.

I’m interested in hearing more opinions around this. I know it’s a bit of a read but it’s interesting.

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19 thoughts on “Integration is Wrong”

  1. Well yes.

    You have intgration on the one hand, and segregation on the other. And what comes in between? Multiculturalism, that’s what. But in a multicultural society the cultures rub up against each other, and they are changed in the encounter; they don’t remain static.

    When our first child was born in Utrecht the old priest in Paulpietersburg said, “She’s born in Zululand, she must have a Zulu name. Her name is Thokozile.”

  2. Thanks for the comments guys! I also managed to find through them that I had a comment moderator on, which I’ve turned off.

    Steve, these are my thoughts. Multiculturalism is a bit of myth if people think that that culture will always remain multiculturalistic. No culture remains static, as you say, which I think is dead on the money and thank you for the term. I think that’s a given by just looking at history.

    This is the first time I’ve come up against such staunch pan-africanism. I never really new too much about it until I engaged with these guys. Is this what pan-africanism is about? You seem to have more experience than me here.

    And how do you think the Gospel should be presented with this worldview in mind? It’s just that there is so much around going back to so-called African roots and the Gospel is seen as this Western thing that must be resisted. That’s the impression I get. Have you had experience in presenting the gospel to people with this sort of worldview?

    1. African Christianity must be just about the most variegated thing on the planet. And when you talk of presenting the gospel to such people, they’ve probably heard it before, and first you need to find out which stick they’ve got the wrong end of! Christianity was established in Africa a long time before it was in Western or northern Europe, but in the 10th century Christians in Ethiopia, England and Russia would probably have understood one another pretty well, apart from language, because they all shared a premodern worldview. When modernity changed Western Europe, and Western Christianity, it created a huge gap when Western missionaries trying to preach the gospel to Africans.

      1. Ah, interesting and helpful insight there Steve. Finding out which side of the stick they’ve gotten wrong… that’s pretty good.

        Just a question – do you consider the evangelical strain of Christianity to be modern? Or do you think we can’t really talk in such general terms? Evangelicalism is a wide reference anyway.

  3. Unfortunately Western Christians have often been guilty of a style of evangelism which says “You must become just like me”. This wrongly portays God’s love for all peoples as some sort of ‘world domination’ plot.

    I personally see merit in holding fast to one’s heritage and ethnicity, yet I see value in being open to embrace outside influence, relating and sharing with people of different backgrounds.

    There must be a balance of honouring the past, and creating the future.

    One expression of culture is art. The most important artsists don’t replicate what has been done before. They carefully pay respect to the various styles and experiences which have influenced them personally, and shape these into something unique and new, thus keeping the art alive.

    I know of a particular instrumental trio whose drummer comes with a rock approach, the bassist is a funk guy, and the pianist sees things from a bebop point of view. All influences are unique, yet they have been cleverly blended. Their integration has been the key to their success.

    Sometimes I have wondered if mixing colours turns everything grey, however i am starting to think that human creativity and expression within community holds endless possibilities of new exciting colours!

    1. I think the difficulty does come in in knowing what to honour in the past and what to jettison.

      Take a practice called Labolla here in SA as an example. Labolla is a bride price. See this blog post of mine for more. This practice seems to lead to a lot of injustice and in my opinion should be jettisoned from the culture. I don’t think that bride-price is a kingdom thing, and I don’t think that’s a western prejudice.

      But you’ve definitely hit the nail with art and music there, imo. When it comes to a lot of art those kinds of things should probably be retained. It’s weird that in South Africa so many of our churches play western music for worship! We should probably be inventing our own sound!

      Which leads me to say that your band sounds awesome! Going to visiting your pages later today and listening to what I can. I love it when guys mix music styles!

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  5. I couldn’t even wait to finish reading the discussion I had to add to the list of comments from my perspective.

    I am Coloured. I was born in Africa. If we are to start sending people to where they belong think about what that means for families that have integrated.

    It is not a race issue, it is a culture issue. If you have grown up in a country and your beliefs and emotions have been intertwined with the roots of the land how dare anyone say ‘Go back to your homeland’. Who can define a home if it is not what is in the heart.

    And if you are still stuck on ‘No Integration’, please realise that integration has happened without your permission. I am here. I am proof.

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  11. Please stop letting them know that you know. Hop on an encrypted site. Then talk. They want to know who knows. They are monitoring our movements and unity.

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